Revised Tuesday agenda
1. Post blogs individually***:
What were the theses? How do you know?
Did they make their points?
What was your reaction?
As an individual:
From the Monday
Review APA format. Go to Hacker website and then post one way that the APA format is either the same as or different from MLA or CSE. Try to post something different than your peers.
Post everything by midnight tonight.
I will be checking my emails tonight. Email if you have any questions.
For tomorrow:
Thesis and bibliographies due (use APA format)
Bring in a dictionary tomorrow.
posted by DrEmmerling at 11:43 AM
20 Comments:
One way that APA format is the same as the CSE format is that they both require cover pages, and when you begin to number pages the page first page also begins with a number two.
Working Thesis
- When we conform to a group of people many factors apply, such as what people wear, the way they speak, and the music they listen to.
Group Minds-Lessing
Thesis- She basically tries to explain that people all think the same way, and that they all "emerge with an idea of themselves"
I believe that Lessing made her point because she explains how when people are put in a room and are asked to decide whether a piece of wood is bigger than another most people will agree with everyone else’s response even if they think it is wrong. No one stands up for themselves then they simply "emerge" and hold the same beliefs.
Opinions and Social Pressure – Solomon E. Asch
Thesis: “That social influences shape every person’s practices, judgments, and beliefs is a truism to which anyone will readily assent.”
I know this is the thesis because it was a bold statement that one can question and it was within the first paragraph of the piece which is where theses generally are located.
Asch proved his point greatly in the paper. He spoke about others who agreed with him in the field, like Gabriel Tarde who believed “social man is a somnambulist.” Asch had done studies and watched people and came to the conclusion that when one was confronted with an opinion different from their own, many would switch to the other opinion to avoid confrontation. It then went on to explain Asch’s experiment in which several men in a group where supposed to answer what they saw. Each guy had the same answer except for one guy, who was purposely given a different answer than the rest of the group. This made the guy angry and irritated. The experiment was done to show how others don’t always like being independent.
That guy that was being tricked and was getting upset was exactly what I think I would feel to. I am not sure that I would purposely change my answer to please the group, but I do agree with Asch and that the people around you do affect your decisions on an everyday basis.
This blog was done by Janet Avalos and Lauren Bale.
TV Howard,
I agree with your statement about different people holding different information to be correct. You said “Different groups of people will have received their information from different sources with different viewpoints, approaches, and methods” and that it would be hard for two very different people to come together and agree on things. It’s very similar to experiences I had when first arriving at UCSB. I came from my little hometown thinking everyone would be similar to me, when in reality they all came from very different situations and very different lifestyles.
Michael Citron,
“I agree with Zimbardo that if we remain passive, we will remain prisoners.” I couldn’t agree more. After watching that video in class, it seems that if you just do what people want, not only do you lose your status in life, but you lose your own inner self. Your question “Is it possible to be obedient and an individual at the same time?” got me thinking about my own life experiences and my answer would be yes. I think that we all are obedient on different levels. Most people follow the law because we want to live in the United States. Most people get jobs to support themselves or their families. These may not be as extreme as being in jail, but on most levels we are obedient.
Rita,
“Americans are enchanted with the notion of self-determination.” This statement I must disagree with for the sake of the prompts for homework. I would like to play devil’s advocate and dare to say what about those on welfare, and false worker’s comp? Maybe they were determined…determined to take money from the government. The statement is to general, but I like what you were thinking. I think our country is so different from others that there has to be something in our water. Self determination could be it, or patriotism. Who knows?
Janet,
I disagree with your statement, “If women or young children would have been included I think that the results would have still been the same because women and children can be easily influenced by other people, like the men in the experiments.” Yes, there is that stereotype that women change their minds all the time, but it simply isn’t true. When reading the Milgram piece, a woman was mentioned named Gretchen Brandt. She was told to do the shocking experiment, but as soon as the victim showed a sign of pain she stopped. She wasn’t influenced to change her mind because someone told her to, she was independent and refused to do something she didn’t think was right. Now I know that she wasn’t in a group, but it’s examples like that one that show that women aren’t always be pushed around. Also I think that most children would be more honest and say the right answers because they are more innocent and don’t know better
APA is similar to MLA because you must cite your sources using the parentheses in the essay.
Working Thesis: Milgram’s obedience experiment although very effective, didn’t truly grasp one’s obedience to authority because the authority in that scenario wasn’t completely convincing.
Theses:
Zimbardo's thesis is that when people abuse or submit to authority, either in the case of the prisoners and prisoner guards created by his experiment or people in their own “mental prisons,” they are reacting passively to roles given to them by society or themselves. This seems to be his thesis, as it is his strongest statement made in the brief section of opinion given after his description of the experiment itself. Zimbardo doesn't really discuss any evidence for the “mental prisons” part of his argument, but I thought that the experiment did solidly show that a person's behavior can change radically if that person accepts a role and follows what they think that role involves.
Fromm's thesis is that while obedience to authority is dangerous, complete rejection of authority can also be dangerous. He backs up this argument by saying that constant rejection of authority prevents the construction of positive institutions. This seems simple and correct.
I would disagree slightly with Alexis Nichols on the issue of schools, when she says “there is hardly any attention on art, music, and free-thinking. It has turned into a very rigid system.” I would say that American schools of the past have been even more rigid, and while there may be fewer music and art programs than there were for a brief period of time in the 90's, even then creative learning was a side-track to a more traditional structure of learning.
I agree with Michale Citron's description of the mental process driving the decision to join the majority in Ashe's experiment, I think he described the type of uncertainty that that sort of decision would bring about.
I would disagree with Rita when she identifies the expectation that great leaders will come as one of the reasons people don't put information into effect. While the loss of leaders may strike blows to the progress being made by those who want to change society, leaders such as MLK and Cesar Chavez came out of movements that had already been formed by more “ordinary” people.
I agree with Kimberly that one of the leading reasons we do not incorporate knowledge into the running of institutions is the variety of backgrounds people have.
APA Format, like CSE, has the title and page number as a right-aligned header
My current working thesis is that Milgram's obedience experiment does not realistically measure obedience to authority in the real world.
1)one difference between MLA and APA is that the date of publication is closer to the end in the MLA style.
2)working thesis:
Milgram believes that the Holocaust was caused by the socially created evil of obeying authority blindly. I will analyze thte mechanism of why, in times of war, people obey authority according to Milgram's theory.
"Obedience to Authority" by Doris Lessing
Thesis- People in the west are defined, as well as given morals, values, and limitations, by the culture they were born into and don’t realize they are not the individual they thought they were.
I know this is the thesis because Lessing goes on to give examples of how people are caught saying they are individuals but obey the majority they associate with. They obey the people around them whether it is what they believe or not, just because of the pressure put on them to fit in.
Yes Doris Lessing made her point. She showed how people’s minds change as they blend with the people around them and that one of the hardest things for humans to do is be different.
I do agree with Lessing to a certain extent. Most people are scared to stand out or hold a different opinion from the people they associate themselves with. However there are exceptions because a lot of leaders come about when they speak out a different opinion. I think as people get older it is easier to be different and people learn how to be individuals.
"Opinions and Social Pressure" by Solomon E. Asch
Thesis- People are easily influenced by the majority in which they live in and will agree with that majority whether what they’re saying is true or not.
This is the thesis because throughout the essay Asch proves this statement is correct with experiments and studies.
I couldn’t believe how weak people are when faced with standing apart from the rest in the experiment. I don’t know how I would react if I was the one being tested but I hope I wouldn’t just say the answers that everyone else was saying.
Peer Response
I disagree with Samuel when he said that authority always wins in the end in our school system. At least for public high schools I noticed how much students can get away with when opposing authority. After going from a private high school to a public one I noticed that the rules were not enforced in the public school to the extent they were in the private school.
I don’t agree with Jesus when he said that Asche’s experiment would not change if children where involved. I think children would be more likely to give into the majority around them because they are much more unsure of who they are and how to be an individual. As people get older they are more likely to voice their opinions.
I like when Amanda said, “They really don't apply their ‘hard information’ because they are fearful of what others are thinking/feeling.” I agree that people are scared to share their personal opinions in front of large groups. People in general do not feel comfortable displaying their emotions and personal feelings unless it is with a close friend or family.
I agree with Kyle when he talked about Ashe’s experiment and how it power and popularity influences their opinions. It made me think that if the experiment was done with a group of individuals who were close friends and felt comfortable with each other, the individuals would be much more likely to say what they really felt was the right answer. Their friends would already know who they are and have a positive opinion about them and know they are intelligent. Therefore, the individual being tested would not have to worry about making a positive impression on the rest of the people in the room.
APA format is the same as MLA in that you integrate quotation marks and can not just place one your paper without an introduction.
working thesis.
In what ways does music shape and define a certain culture or group of people?
1. Zimbardo's thesis is stated clearly in his seventh paragraph: "When we planned our two-week-long simulation of prison life, we sought to understand more about the process by which people called 'prisoners' lose their liberty, civil rights, independence, and privacy, while those called 'guards' gain social power by accepting the responsibility for controlling and managing the lives of their dependent charges." Obviously, Zimbardo believed that the prisoners would submit to the guards’ newly gained authority. He probably expected some rebellion, but not nearly the revolt that he saw from the prisoners. Zimbardo makes his point by describing his experiment in great detail and the reactions that individual prisoners had to the somewhat abusive attitude of the guards. I am shocked by this experiment, not because of the idea itself, but because it was extended for far too longer than it should have been. This extension makes me think that the experiment ended up being inhumane, even though it was unintentionally this way.
2. Lauren Bale, I like your point, “If everyone was forced to make such decisions, nothing would ever be challenged…” I think that challenging authority is often very important and essential for making change and doing the right thing.
3. Rita, I like what you say about Americans being too optimistic. Often I find myself trying to look at things in a positive way, even though I know that they will end up poorly. I don’t act on my previous knowledge because I want things to go well instead of realistically. Good point!
4. Lauren Young, I somewhat disagree with you that it is much easier to be passive. This, however, could be simply a personal belief. I find it easier to be a leader, possibly because I don’t like following people that I don’t agree with. In general I think that you are right, but personally I suppose this doesn’t apply to me.
5. Jared, I think the results of Ashe’s experiment may be somewhat different today, obviously depending on where it is conducted. I think that people are much more independent of their decisions, especially at the college level age. Nonetheless, the group will persuade some. In fact, the majority still will. However, I think that the number of independent people will increase.
6. The APA is different from the MLA format because the titles in the references are capitalized in MLA. In APA only the first letter of the title of the article or book is capitalized.
7. Working thesis: Zimbardo is correct in his assertion that people “choose to remain prisoners because being passive and dependent frees us from the need to act and be responsible for our actions” (62). Yet, people must employ both an obedient and sometimes disobedient attitude to be just and effective with their wants and beliefs.
Articles in book:
Group minds by Doris Lessing:
Thesis: The human race needs to use the knowledge that we know about human nature to improve our institutions.
In this case, she actually says this is her thesis (end of paragraph 6).
Lessing first starts her argument with how Americans view themselves as individuals controlled only by their own free will. She then goes on to state how individuals tend to conform when they are in a group setting. She then states examples of conformity in a group. One example she states involves pieces of wood that are roughly the same length. Individuals, who are in a group where their peers around them insist that the lengths of wood are the same length, tend to give into peer pressure. She then points out that although our first thoughts that we have about there experiments is that we wouldn’t give into group pressure, it is actually quite difficult to do.
I think we do apply at least some knowledge of human nature into our institutions. Many of the reforms of the government do take into account human nature. For example, the setting of a minimum wage is to prevent overexploitation of workers. However, this minimum wage only ensures that workers aren’t below the poverty level, rather than provide them with the necessities they need. Although these laws don’t seem to do much, they at least show some consideration due to human nature was included when the law was passed. However, I do agree that further application of the knowledge we know about human nature will improve our lives.
Opinions and Social Pressure by Soloman E. Asch:
Thesis: Most people in a group situation will conform to the group consensus.
In this article, the thesis was obvious because it was what was being tested.
This article was basically a summary of his experiment. It first gives the reader background with how individuals in a culture are assimilated into that culture as children. He then sets up the experiment for the reader, stating similarities of the subjects, their tasks and any instructions the subjects were given. He then states the results and further experiments to clarify the results.
I think this Asch’s tests show how powerful peer pressure can be. It also is another example how a small, seemingly useless task can later turn out to have a deeper meaning. Speaking your opinions on something as meaningless as the length of a line in this experiment shows the type of person you are.
The Perils of Obedience by Stanley Milgram:
Thesis: Most people cannot hold to their own beliefs when faced with authority.
Like the Asch article, this thesis was obvious because it was what was being tested.
This article basically follows the same format as the Asch article. You first state the conditions of the experiments, present the results, present your analysis of the results, present any additional experiments done to clarify the results, and finally, conclude the research with a general statement.
I think the Milgram experiments were shocking in many aspects. First, Milgram must have violated many of his experimental subject’s rights, in terms of ethics. I think they must have needed lots of support after that experiment. It wouldn’t be weird if they were wary of authority figures for the rest of their lives. In addition, it does show how susceptible we are to following orders from society and how society can dictate what we usually think of as our own domain. It also helps put into perspective the Hitler regime. It makes sense now how a select few of individuals can control an entire country. I think many of the criticisms of this time period is why didn’t individuals in this government try to overthrow it? The citizens outnumbered the government by a lot. After reading Milgram’s experiments it shows how fear, paranoia and peer pressure can really render your conscience useless. I think it’s now sort of understandable why people didn’t speak out during these types of things throughout history. It’s also kind of scary how it keeps repeating, like Robespierre’s reign of terror, the Salem witch craft trials, the Communits hunts etc.
Review of Stanley Milgram’s Experiments on Obedience by Diana Baumrind:
Thesis: Milgram’s experiment shows us biased results because the subjects were trapped into showing unsavory behavior. Thus, people should not take the findings of the Milgram experiments as concrete proof.
This thesis is obvious because she picks certain examples in Milgram’s experiment and tries to discredit them.
She first starts by stating the rights of the test subject and the responsibility of the experimenter to use ethical methods. She then picks some examples from Milgram’s experiments and shows how they fail to serves as a good experimental model and how they violated the code of ethics.
She brought up many issues that I agreed with, especially when she talks about the violation of ethics and the violation of the unconscious trust between the experimenter and the subject.
Obedience by Ian Parker:
Thesis:
Monday blogs:
Agree:
I agree with Michael Citron’s comments on the Lessing article. I think your insights that individual responses versus group responses would be completely different are completely correct. It also makes sense that what you are thinking internally may not match what you are projecting to the outside world. So it’s not too hard to think our actions in a group would be different than actions alone.
I also agree with Alexis on her section on Zimbardo’s comment. I think your comment that being a prisoner is really an easy way out is absolutely right. By being a prisoner, you can simply shirk of personal responsibility. You can simply attribute your cruelty towards other prisoners as “they deserved it” or “they brought it upon themselves.” Being a prisoner really does give you a chance to simply refuse to take any responsibility for present and future actions.
Disagree:
I’m afraid I have to disagree with Lauren Bale’s comment on how changing the experimental subjects will change the results of the study. Well, at least half of it. I personally believe that repeating the same experiment with younger children will more or less yield the same results. I think children are even more susceptible to peer pressure at their age. No child wants to feel as if they were different from the group somehow. In many cases, I think the peer pressure during the teenage years is less intense that that during childhood. I think in the teenage years, the peer pressure seems more powerful because it is at a time where too much is happening at the same time. As for older experimental subjects, I agree with her statement. I think the older you get, the more you realize that you have nothing to lose by speaking your mind. Of course, I don’t think there would be a direct correlation between age and speaking out in a group, but it is likely there would be more people comfortable in going against the group consensus.
I also disagree with Jesus on his comment in response to whether or not he agreed with Baumind. I do agree with you partially when you say “that the subjects were ‘entrapped’ into committing unworthy acts.” However, I disagree with your comment that the maximum voltage was used simply because the experimenter would take responsibility for anything bad that would happen. Although this may relieve some of the stress on the “teachers,” it still doesn’t justify them using the maximum voltage. Having the experimenter take the responsibility may be part of the reason why they used the maximum voltage, but it isn’t the only one that could have convinced them that they were safe to use it though. The fact that the experimenter offered to take responsibility for anything bad that may happen doesn’t excuse the “teachers” responsibility of the one inflicting the pain or going along with it. Regardless of how hard it is to speak out, they should have followed their conscience and done so.
APA vs. MLA vs. CSE format:
The title of the page that lists the references for each format is different.
APA: Reference(s)
MLA: Works Cited
CSE: Cited References
My working thesis:
Better education is needed to provide the public with the knowledge necessary to prevent blind obedience.
Doris Lessing
The thesis in Lessing's piece is that we (the human race) know that our individuality is compromised in a group setting yet we still do not use this knowledge to make a change and become more independent. Lessing proved her point because she showed how individuals will almost always conform to the group mindset, even when it goes against his/her best judgment. The examples that she used were accurate with my own personal experience, therefore I believe that her point was well made.
Solomon E. Asch
Asch's thesis in his writing is that social influences shape every person's beliefs, even though most people believe they are independent and say that independence is preferable to conformity. Readers know that this is his thesis because he it is the main topic of his paper, and because he gives many examples proving his point. He made his point by doing controlled experiments that gave results proving many people would abandon their previous beliefs and conform to the belief of a group. He also asked all of his subjects whether independence was preferable to conformity, and they all agreed that it was. This shows that while people think they are independent, in reality, many times they are not, or at least not to the extent in which they believe.
I agree with YoungLady8228 when she says that today the experiment outcome would not change. The way the human mind works today is virtually the same as it worked 50 years ago, therefore there would be no reason to have any sort of drastic change in the experiment results. I have actually seen some of theses experiments done to my peers, and I can attest first hand that many people still do conform to the group mindset even if it is contrary to their best judgment.
I agree with Janet that a reasonable explanation for not incorporating our knowledge of human nature in running our institutions because everyone thinks differently. No two minds and no two people are alike, so a solution that may work for one group of people might be completely wrong for another set of people. This may be why we haven’t incorporated this knowledge into our institutions, because no one specific way would work for everyone.
I must say that I have to disagree with Ales Nicolas when he says, “…teenagers have a lot of pressure to fit in, adults may be more able to handle being different.” I believe that parents are just as likely to conform to their peers as are teenagers. A parent in a group of teenagers would probably remain steadfast in his answers yes, but a parent grouped with ten other parents would probably be swayed towards the opinion of the group, just like an adolescent would. For example, when a mother at first tells a child that he can’t go to a sleepover, but then hears that three of her peers’ children are letting their children go, a parent is more likely to change their mind.
I also have to disagree with Lauren when she states: “If the experiment had been done with younger children… the results would show children expressing the truth, and not worrying about the other kids answers based on the innocence of their age.” I couldn’t disagree more because I have seen many young kids join in on teasing another student simply because every one else is doing it. Also, many young kids have a fear of being different or standing out, so they could possibly be even more likely to conform to the answers of their peers.
APA format is different from MLA in that MLA does not require a title page, while APA does.
Thesis: Although there are those that never choose to speak out for themselves, and those that always disobey orders and never obey, in order to be a complete person one must be able to stand up for himself at times as well as follow orders of others.
I agree with Kareon88 because I think that Ashe’s experiment would probably yield the same results today as it did in the past too. People follow their belief and knowledge of human nature, even though society constantly changes its role.
I believe that the results of Ashe’s experiment would be different if experimenters were different group of people; not college students. For example, I agree with Janet when she said that the results might be a little different if women were included because women are more cooperative where as men are much more individualistic.
I have different opinion with Michael because I believe that being obedience isn’t the only right key to get things done effectively in administrative terms. People with new ideas and different plans could develop our society successfully and better.
I disagree with tvhoward because he thinks that the result of Ashe’s study would be the same when conducted at a different time or with different groups of people. I believe that the result would be different if the experiment was done to different group of people.
My working theses:
I acknowledge that Milgram’s obedience experiment measure people’s obedience to authority effectively.
The common thing between APA and CSE format is that both require the cover page and the page number starts with two excluding the cover page. The references citation of APA style is different from CSE style; the author’s full first name is needed after comma.
1) Zimbardo's thesis was that "the essence of obedience is that a person comes to view himself as the instrument for carrying out another person's wishes, and he therefore no longer regards himself as responsible for his actions."
Yes Zimbardo did accomplish this because many of the subject put an emphasis on the fact that the experimenter, not them was responsible to any harm done to the learner.
I thought that the experiment was extremely unethical and could have been administered in a less traumatic fashion.
2) I disagree slightly with Michael when he states that in order to become an indivdual it is necessary to disagree with the rules and stick out. I believe that one can still be an individual with different qualities to offer even if they may be a bit passive. I personally could in some people's minds come off as passive but I still believe that I am an individual in every sense of the word.
I disagree with Janet when she states that older people's experimentation results for the Milgram study would be more valuable because they are older. I think that it would be less valuable because I think that we need to concentrate on youth because they are the people who are going to be running the world, not older people.
I agree with Jared when he states that if he was a teacher in the Milgram experiment that he would look to the experimenter for instructions and when the experimenter said it was okay than I would continue following orders. I mean, why would I not trust an expert? I probably would be less inclined to follow the instructions if there was just a piece of paper for instruction because there would be no re-enforcement.
I also agree with Jesus when he says that being a college student he would feel influenced by a group and would tend to think that the group as a whole would be right. I am pretty easily influenced by groups because I feel that obviously if more people of pretty much equal mental ability think something they are probably right because they have the majority.
3) In APA citations in text after the quote is introduced with a single phrase the year of publication is put in parentheses after the authors name. Also the "p" for page # is followed by a period in APA formatting.
4) Working Thesis: Milgrams 'obedience experiment', although convincing in terms of technical equitment, does not apply to the real world of authoratative obedience.
Kyle and Jesus,
I completely agree with you because a person's opinion can vary depending on if they are in a group or if they are independent of a group. Usually the old saying ,'majority rules', definately applies. Many people, when in a large group, just tend to go with the flow and agree with the unanimous opinion and stray away from their own beliefs. This is really common in classrooms and it is rare that one individual will stand up and differ from the masses.
I really agree with everyone because pretty much everyone feels, in one way or another, that people are influenced when in a group.
APA format varies from MLA and CSE in that it's work cited page is titled " references."
working thesis:
" Those who strike out on the path of independence do not, as a rule, succumb to the majority even over an extended series of trials, while those who choose the path of compliance are unable to free themselves as the ordeal is prolonged(Asch,p.164). Many people conform to influence and follow the trend of the majority, but once independent of a group's restraint, they may think freely and become an individual instead of a member of the masses.
An APA title page differs from CSE title page format because a short title with the page number is put on the title page of an APA paper, but not on a CSE paper.
Working thesis:
Being an athelete keeps me in shape, sets a status symbol, and can dictate my life.
I agree with Lauren Young ,that Milgram’s experiment would have been more accurate if it had involved different subjects and different ages. This would have done away with the influence a person might have on another because for a example a child and a man in his thirties do not think alike. The man would not feel pressured to change his answer which differed the answer of two children.
I agree with Samuel’s statement that, “ Groupwork is vital for the success of all institutions, and while in a group one most believe that everyone within the group is working for the best result possible.” Sure there comes a time and place where we need to be individuals, but belonging to a group brings a sense of security. In a working environment institution, more work is accomplished through groups of people rather than a person doing all of the work.
I would have to disagree with kerion88’s statement, “ …if a higher authority just tells somebody to kill somebody there must be some connection or else they probably wouldnt do a very complete job.” An example would be living in a dictatorship and a person is ordered to go against his will and kill or be killed. If the authority is powerful enough, people will act and follow orders because their lives could also be at danger.
To an extent, I disagree with Janet’s statement in which she states, “If someone wants to do something they will do it regardless if their ordered to do it or not.” I believe that most people who kill, do it because they are given orders. Sure there might be in-human souls out there who enjoys ending lives , but for the majority an authority is what powers them to act. An example of this would be our troops in Iraq who are out there killing the enemy because those are their orders. Troops don’t seek killing people in their personal time, it is their job. When relating it to something like ditching class on Thursday, then people would do it whether they are ordered to do so or not. Of course one would do so, especially if there’s a gullible substitute and a friend raises his hand as the substitute calls out your name.
APA uses in-text citations that are similar to that of the MLA format.
Working thesis: People are forced to go against their will, yet continue to act because of the power behind the authority.
1) Zimbardo's thesis is clearly found in his discription of the experiment, "we sought to understand more about the process by which people called 'prisoners' lose their liberty, civil rights, independence, and privacy, while those called 'guards' gain social power by accepting the responsibility for controlling and managing the lives of their dependent charges." Zimbardo sought to see how people's personality's would change depending on the amount of power given or taken away from them. Zimbardo clearly proved this theory in his experiment, causing him to have to terminate it in just 6 days. I agree with Zimbardo, especially after seeing his movie on the experiment, it really showed me what he was talking about and helped me to form my opinion on the matter.
Janet
I agree with your idea that if women and children were used in the experiment the results would be the same. I think the subjects conformed because of pressures from society, and women and children are no exception.
Kimberly
I agree with you ideas of why we don't apply knowledge into istitutions. Different backgrounds can call for different ideas, as everybody's thought process is not the same, this would not be a good idea.
Michael
I disagree with your ideas of if we remain passive we will remain prisoners. People are not prisoners just because they "go with the flow". It could mean that they are just trying to fit in, or try and keep out of trouble. One doesn't have to be outlandish to rebel, or be their own person.
Amanda
Your ideas of "hard information" are true. People are very insecure and they may feel like they could be judged if they let others see their true feelings. I agree with you when you say this is why people don't apply hard information
APA FORMAT
APA is similar to CSE in that they require a cover page, as opposed to MLA which does not
THESIS
As proved by Zimbardo's "Stanford Prison Experiment," the idea that people can be given a little and take a lot is shown when a group of students from the same area either gained power or submitted to those who were given it.
3) Lessing's thesis:
Understanding the social laws that govern groups and govern us is important.
This seems to be a thesis since Lessing says "It is information that will set people free from blind loyalties, obedience to slogans, rhetoric, group emotions." in the last sentence of the last paragraph.
Nowadays, most of us learn the social laws that governs us in school or on TV and I think we are not as helpless against authority as we used to be.
4) Asch's thesis:
"How, and to what extent, do social forces constrain people's opinions and attitudes?"
This seems to be a thesis since he did experiment about it.
Almost all of the participant agreed that independence was preferable to conformity, but they were afraid of answering against their peers in the experiment. We can lern the mechanism of groupthink, but it is hard for us to act on information. I think we should learn how to disagree with our peers in school.
Zimbardo’s thesis is, “To what extent do we allow ourselves to become imprisoned by docilely accepting the roles others assign us or, indeed, choose to remain prisoners because being passive and dependent frees us from the need to act and be responsible for our actions?” This was stated at the end of the experiment, this is what the experiment proved to him. I think this is a good question because he proves that if you give somebody a role they will accept it rather than be active and rebel against it.
I agree with Michael Citron and tvhoward, when they say that in playing a role given to you is played by a passive person, and if you are passive you will forever be in that prison. Zimbardo’s final theory had to do with people being shy and how that shyness becomes a prison over time. In the experiment the passive men never said anything and in long term effects those men will be in a prison all their life because they never played an active role.
APA format is similar to CSE format because they both have a title page and the way that the pages are numbered in the right hand corner with the title of the paper and the page number.
My working thesis: Passive, shy people create their own prisons and play the role that has been given to them in our society.
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5)
I agree with alexis's idea that someone constantly wonder about his answer in school after feeling embarassed. We often create an atmosphere of attacking someone who is not confident or who looks too confident. I think someone who looks too confident is not actually confident and always wonder if he is saying the right thing. Therefore, I think everybody cares what other people think.
6)I agree with younglady8228. I do think individuality is promoted in the United States. However, it seems that people like the same music, clothes, and way of talking and if someone wear differently, people will make fun of him. This is why I think individuality is promoted only when the person basically acts or looks in the similar way with other people.
Zimbardo’s thesis stated that although there were no measurable differences when he started the experiment, individuals acted differently according to society’s definition of the roles. This seems to be the main aspect of the essay. Zimbardo goes into detail to explain how “normal” the subjects are yet they all acted differently. His essay clearly enabled the reader to understand the experiment and how it happened. This experiment is so shocking to me. I would hope that if I were put in that situation, I would act differently but who knows? All those men probably thought the same thing. They all got so cruel it’s hard to understand how it is all possible.
Janet,
I agree with what you said about how the results would be the same if 9 college students were used from present times. I also agree that women would not have an affect. Also, older people will probably not conform to the group and they will probably be more independent. This makes a lot of sense to me because teenagers are so vulnerable to pressures of society. They get pressures from peers and the media unlike that of elderly people. Teenagers are working to become their own identity and “discover themselves” while older people have already formulated that for themselves.
Jesus,
I feel like I would act the same way and agree with the group’s opinion on the basis that they are probably correct. I probably would have done the same thing and figured that I must be going crazy and seeing things differently, but I would have acted similarly. You also made the same point I did about the fact that now there is knowledge about this experiment and this behavior in the world, people may be more likely to remember this during a psychological experiment and act independently.
Rita,
I disagree with what you were saying about the “lessons that we learned when we were younger will prevent mass following of authority.” Although we learn about people that were able to speak their minds, it is probably more about the change that they created. It is sometimes a positive thing. The mass following of authority has often brought about great change in the world. It is important that society states optimistic and hopes of improvement will always be on our minds.
Samuel,
I disagree with your opinion on what would happen if the experiment were performed today. It would be hard to know the differences of characteristics of people from the 50’s and present. I don’t think the results would have changed that much. Also, you discuss how if well-educated social classes did the experiment the results would be different, how do you know that the college boys were any smarter/dumber then average or if people today? Many well-educated people may feel threatened knowing a similarly “smart” person answered differently and they may want to agree with the group in order to avoid being wrong.
APA vs. MLA and CSE
The Titles are similar to CSE because they incorporate the title and number when numbering the pages but in APA the title page is numbered (unlike in CSE). MLA, however, uses the last name and page number.
Working Thesis:
In Milgrim’s study, although there are both positive/negative aspects of his experiment, he makes a discovery about society and how society needs to be run.
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